Posts by cha ching

3

Identifying a cult - what is it's purpose?

by 4thgen in

there was an interesting statement on a cult recovery site: the first is to look at its purpose which should be centered on the people it serves rather than on the ones that are providing the service.. well, that leaves out jws, as its now all about the gb.. 'its not what they say, its what they do!".

.

http://www.choosehelp.com/experts/counseling/counseling-christopher-smith/religious-recovery-site-or-a-cult.

cha ching

"Lets say an organization wants a person to separate from and cut off contact from family and friends does that sound like a cult?"

'You will be afraid.... you will be"

and don't think it won't happen to you ....

9

From the Governing Body

by molybdenum in

obey obey you have no choice .

we are the ones who are god's voice.

faithful and discreet we take the lead.

cha ching

Very good poem.... says it all...

cha ching

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

cha ching

One cannot utter a WORD of disagreement or question what "mother" has "given us," w/o being called "Apostate.'

Jesus and his apostles were not like that.

Hence, this 'refined, selected, holy spirit directed,' book publishing organization is NOT "Christ like."

Unity... conformity... comes before all else..... and that is sad...

387

Active JW's, can you defend "THE TRUTH?"

by DATA-DOG in

as of yet, no member of the jehovah's witness faith can defend their unique beliefs.

when the dust settles, it all comes down to blind faith in men's ever-changing ideas.

this "unique belief" was not a "true teaching of the bible.

cha ching

(John 11:11-16) 11　He said these things, and after this he said to them: "Laz´a·rus our friend has gone to rest, but I am journeying there to awaken him from sleep." 12　Therefore the disciples said to him: "Lord, if he has gone to rest, he will get well." 13　Jesus had spoken, however, about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14　At that time, therefore, Jesus said to them outspokenly: "Laz´a·rus has died, 15　and I rejoice on YOUR account that I was not there, in order for YOU to believe. But let us go to him." 16　Therefore Thomas, who was called The Twin, said to his fellow disciples: "Let us also go, that we may die with him."

(John 11:42-46) .　.　." 43　And when he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: "Laz´a·rus, come on out!" 44　The [man] that had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his countenance was bound about with a cloth. Jesus said to them: "Loose him and let him go." 45　Therefore many of the Jews that had come to Mary and that beheld what he did put faith in him; 46　but some of them went off to the Pharisees and told them the things Jesus did."

Thomas, an apostle, saw Lazurus get resurrected... Who of US have seen ANYONE get resurrected?

(John 20:24-25) 24　But Thomas, one of the twelve, who was called The Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. 25　Consequently the other disciples would say to him: "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them: "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe."

Did Thomas get shunned? disfellowshipped for "disunity"? After all, didn't he see MANY things that we did not? He KNEW Jesus! We have NEVER spoken to Jesus personally, or witnessed miracles, or even USED H.S. to do them ourselves...

Why wasn't Thomas told "You are being disrespectful?"

"You are speaking ill of our fellow Christians?"

"Thomas, we must preserve our unity!"

"Jehovah's name will be reproached by the way you are talking"

"The "Governing Body" is going to hear about this!?!"

"We are setting up a Judicial Committee meeting of three brothers to straighten you out"

LET'S SEE WHAT GOD'S SON HIMSELF DID......

(John 20:26-29) 26　Well, eight days later his disciples were again indoors, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked, and he stood in their midst and said: "May YOU have peace." 27　Next he said to Thomas: "Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but become believing." 28　In answer Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!" 29　Jesus said to him: "Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe."

Jesus is the opposite of "God's Organization"........

Jesus did not need to bully people into believing ("Your family will shun you if you don't accept everything the 'uninspired', non miracle producing, "Organization of God on Earth" says")

Jesus let's people ask questions.

30

Problems: The Bethel Family and Social Security Tax Exemption

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

so i happened to be reading a website about the amish, and i came across this:.

"do the amish pay taxes?

""self-employed amish do not pay social security tax.

cha ching

Thank you Chaserious, I have always wanted to read that.

I need to be clearer (tho hereI kind of like to be vague.... ) when I describe a situation.

The "Bethel Bro" (that was rich, and still gets a SS check) STILL SERVES AT BETHEL.....

He is still living there, at Beth Hell.... and gets an SS check.... and, according to #6:

6. To turn over to the local organization of the Order all income received from any work or personal efforts in excess of my necessary living expenses, unless released from this vow by the Order;

He would have to give the Watchtower his check... right?

(Unless, of course, it was a mere pittance, and wasn't "in excess of his necessary living expenses...." )

;-) cha ching (thx again)

30

Problems: The Bethel Family and Social Security Tax Exemption

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

so i happened to be reading a website about the amish, and i came across this:.

"do the amish pay taxes?

""self-employed amish do not pay social security tax.

cha ching

We just had an old friend (who moved away yeaaaarrrs ago) pop in with a surprise visit. He is from the East Coast, U.S.

We have a Bethelite "friend" in common, who has been their for years. We were told this common "friend" said "Yeah, I get an SS check every month, like getting free money in the mail!"

When the Bethel guy left here, he was 27? His family was very rich, but he signed a vow of poverty. So, even if they died and left him money, he couldn't accept it, right?

He may have worked when younger (but not sure because of rich family) but even if he did get SS wages, how can Bethelites accept money if they signed a vow of poverty?

Will Bethel take their checks and cash them?

thx, cha ching

13

Watchtowers Prophesy Date's DON'T ADD UP! .

by Londo111 in

snarky's version is much more entertaining:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqluxvfvalm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu7030iiabu.

cha ching

Thank you for doing the math Londo!

I looooove the Excel formulas, I didn't know you could do that with dates and numbers, or I would have spared my brain a long time ago...

How many people will sit there with a calender, or a calculator and do the math?

Especially when going to five meetings a week, field serve-us, building kingdom halls, cleaning kh's, reading WT's and AW's, studying for meetings, going on shepherding calls, waiting for mates to get done with elder's meetings, etc... ????

Those explanations always did hurt my brain..... Especially when they use 'vagueries' to explain very specific detailed prophecies.

"Charlatans" ....

"Con-men" ...

"Pseudo-Intellectuals"...

Wanting to be worshipped...

Like Snarky said, "What makes me cry, are the people that actually follow them."

cha ching

74

Here we go again. Dan 4 and 1914

by leaving_quietly in

wtbts published a new article on jw.org (http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/) entitled "what does bible chronology indicate about the year 1914?

" in it, it points to daniel 4 as the prophecy and uses the same leaps of insane logic to get from the first and only fulfillment of that prophecy to 1914, using 607 as the starting point and 2,520 years as doubling the 1,260 years in revelation.

of course, there is no accounting for the difference in our solar years and the bible's lunar years, which makes the math have a very different outcome.

cha ching

Dang! Sorry, I must have read and read and read and researched waaaay too much!

Thx Londo, I'd rather be corrected & correct!

I want to be way different than the WTBS!

23

WHY TRUST "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE"

by Oubliette in

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cha ching

Oubliette: Thx for the quotes...

Very interesting how the basis for confidence disappears, "Now you see it, now you don't'

Magicians are good entertainers, but life should not be built upon the "slight of hand."

cha ching

74

Here we go again. Dan 4 and 1914

by leaving_quietly in

wtbts published a new article on jw.org (http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/) entitled "what does bible chronology indicate about the year 1914?

" in it, it points to daniel 4 as the prophecy and uses the same leaps of insane logic to get from the first and only fulfillment of that prophecy to 1914, using 607 as the starting point and 2,520 years as doubling the 1,260 years in revelation.

of course, there is no accounting for the difference in our solar years and the bible's lunar years, which makes the math have a very different outcome.

cha ching

Yes, I ACTUALLY am sooooooooooo grateful for the posts & calculations, and explanations of AnnOMaly & Leolaia.

I just wanted to mathematically express how mentally frustrating it is to even try and rationalize/ excuse this type of calculating.

Am I wrong here? Please let me ask again....

I don't care if the Jews had 2 or 3 or 4 or any other type of other calendar for adjusting "times"... or if they knew about solar, lunar, whatchabugger... anything. And, if God wanted them to use 365 Gregorian calendar years, why did He make them calculate using 360 day "prophetic years?" Ahhhh!!!

When PEOPLE (the "Society") want to use ONE WAY ("prophetic" years of 360) to calculate "YEARS," then they should keep that "sacred, Bible given, instituted, holy spirit led” way of thinking up. I mean, they do want to "hold true" to the "sacred" writings, hmm?

607 was my breaking point. I thoroughly studied those two WT’s in 2011, and saw all the misquotes, no quotes, half quotes, and misleading statements. I did the calculations…

I saw them discount tablets and historians at the drop of a hat, then use them quicker than a wink of an eye if they needed them.

I read the small little footnote at the bottom of the page regarding the Egibi business tablets (that cover every single year of Babylonian rule during Nebuchadnezzar) that ‘When the years that these kings ruled, and are totaled, and a calculation is made back from th last Neo-Babylonian king, Nabonidus, the date reached for the destruction of Jerusalem is 587 B.C.E.” (WT Nov 1, 2011 pg. 24 In THE smallest font possible)

In the paragraph to the left, what does the WTBS use for “evidence”? Questions… Doubt…

“Why are there discrepancies? … Could others have ruled? If so, additional years would have to be added to the Neo Babylonian period. Therefore, neither the Babylonian chronicles nor the business tablets provide a basis to establish with certainty that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 B.C.E.

THEREFORE? That “therefore” was built upon assumptions….

And don’t forget their “disclaimer” to the right… regarding those Egibi business tablets. Yep, those little business accounting tablets prove it was more like 586/ 587. But you have to read the fine print.

Great for a “legal corporation,” right?